• Steven Bartlett's "Diary of a CEO" has been fact-checking health and science episodes following a BBC probe.
• The show uses pop-ups to provide more context during the show, and research reports go deeper.
• There are weaknesses to its approach: the reports are long and dense, while the pop-ups are limited to video.

The top producer of the hit podcast "The Diary of a CEO" says the show has raised its bar for accuracy, an effort that began after a BBC investigation found it had shared harmful health misinformation.

"We're being more rigorous than we have in the past," Hans Sahni, the executive producer for "DOAC," told Business Insider. "That bar gets higher and higher every day."

The BBC reported in late 2024 that 15 of 23 health-related episodes contained an average of 14 potentially harmful claims.

A core part of "DOAC's" accuracy effort is fact-checking its guests. The show began its own fact-checking about six months after the BBC report. The team runs every episode through an AI-assisted review using Claude, Gemini, and Consensus. It also hired an independent medical Ph.D. researcher to review its health and wellness episodes.

Sahni said the show is putting every new episode through this process, and has fact-checked 71 episodes with the Ph.D. researcher. That amounts to about 13% of the 540 long-form interviews in its YouTube catalog. Sahni said the team is exploring the idea of fact-checking previously published episodes.

"DOAC's" fact-checking effort shows how independent creators are acting more like traditional media companies as they grow their audiences and attract the interest of big advertisers, who want their ads to run in brand-safe environments. Health and wellness have become particularly fraught topics, as many creators — including major stars like Joe Rogan — have been criticized for not pushing back against fringe views espoused by some of their guests.

"DOAC" host Steven Bartlett has come under more scrutiny as his megaphone has grown. "DOAC" has about 21 million subscribers on YouTube and regularly ranks as the top business podcast on Spotify. Bartlett recently told Fortune he projects the show will make $60 million this year from sponsorships and other sources.

In the video version of "DOAC" on platforms like YouTube and Spotify, when contested or complex topics arise, the show displays temporary pop-ups called "DOAC Community Notes" to rebut a guest or provide additional context. These are the result of the internal team's review or collaboration between the researcher and the show's team, who make the final call on what to put on screen.

The decision is based on the stakes of the claim, how strongly it's challenged by scientific literature, and what context is useful to the viewer in the moment — with an emphasis on fewer, higher-value interruptions.

The audio version doesn't have community notes, but information shared by the guest is cut if the team determines it to be inaccurate. An extensive fact-checking research document is linked in the show notes.

Sahni said the show's guest-booking and research teams have also become more disciplined in evaluating potential guests.

'DOAC's' approach has its limits

Angie Drobnic Holan, director of the International Fact-Checking Network, a Poynter project, applauded the show for making an effort to provide more accurate and contextual information.

"I would like to see more podcast hosts presenting information in context," she said. "The bigger the audience, the bigger the responsibility, especially when there's risk for harm."

Holan saw some limitations to "DOAC's" approach, though.

She said the sourcing on the Community Notes was unclear to viewers, as was who wrote the research briefings. She questioned whether the audience would read them, given that they're long and dense and don't present clear takeaways. The research documents often run upward of 80 pages. "DOAC" said it didn't have reliable user data on readership but was looking at getting that measurement.

Holan suggested that, overall, it's better to vet guests beforehand and have the interviewer fact-check the guest as they go.

Sahni said "DOAC" isn't a news program and doesn't present itself as such. At the same time, the show has a responsibility to the audience, he added.

Sahni said his team is working to improve the fact-checking process based on audience feedback and to expand its scope. For example, some viewers have said the pop-ups disappear too quickly or that there are too many of them.

The team uses Consensus, an AI research platform, in the fact-checking process and is exploring the use of its Consensus Meter, a visual feature, on-screen.

Figuring out how to present the same info on audio as on video without interrupting the listening experience is another hurdle. Right now, audio listeners can access the research document, but there's no audio equivalent of the on-screen pop-up.

Pop-ups challenged guests on drug and science claims

"DOAC" has had ample opportunity to put its fact-checking to work. Bartlett recently interviewed neuroscientist and podcaster Andrew Huberman, who's been called out for promoting unapproved treatments.

Throughout the interview, which has over 8 million views, occasional pop-ups challenge Huberman's medical claims, especially about peptides and weight-loss drugs.

Huberman said his sleep improved after he took the peptide pinealon. A 20-second pop-up appeared that read in part, "Evidence from human clinical studies remains limited."

Another pop-up read, in part: "Interest in peptides has surged, particularly for weight loss and skin health, but many marketed products are not FDA-approved and lack strong evidence from human clinical trials."

When Huberman calls the weight-loss drug Retatrutide "amazing" and says people lost about one-third of their body weight on it, a pop-up cautions that the drug remains under investigation and isn't FDA-approved.

In an episode with sleep specialist Michael Breus that has 13 million views, Breus said 75% of the reason for insomnia is anxiety and depression. The research doc said insomnia has multiple contributors.

When aging researcher David Sinclair recommended eating a Brazil nut a day for its selenium, a pop-up warned that excessive intake can cause toxicity.

"There's a tension between having a provocative guest and presenting the most accurate information we possibly can," Sahni said. "We're always going to lean toward being as accurate as we feel we can be. We're not journalists. None of us are and don't purport to be the news."

• MrBeast has an unusual expectation for ex-employees: Don't talk about MrBeast on social media — at all.
• Labor lawyers said the language in a letter outlining obligations for departing employees was uncommonly broad.
• A MrBeast rep said the language is meant to protect employees and the company from harassment.

MrBeast has an unusual expectation for departing employees: The world's top YouTuber doesn't want them to post about him — even if they're saying nice things.

Employees leaving the company of MrBeast, whose real name is Jimmy Donaldson, receive a letter outlining their obligations, including an "expectation" that they refrain from creating, commenting on, or engaging with social posts involving Donaldson, his company Beast Industries, or any of its employees. Business Insider viewed one such letter and confirmed it was the standard version used by the company.

The letter also states that the employee should not disclose nonpublic information about the company or make false or disparaging statements about it.

Three employment lawyers told Business Insider that the letter had a few uncommon features, pointing particularly to the references to social media.

"It does seem like an unusual burden to not be able to comment on social media," said V. James DeSimone, a California-based attorney. Plus, the letter doesn't offer any severance or other consideration in exchange, he added.

A Beast Industries spokesman said the social media language is intended to protect employees and the company from harassing behavior on social media.

Evan Fray-Witzer, of the firm Ciampa Fray-Witzer — who has experience working with creators — said the language in the MrBeast letter was broader than typical nondisparagement clauses he's seen. That's because it covers all comments, not just negative ones, and also extends to every post that references the company.

"If you were to read this literally, the person couldn't hit the 'like' button on a MrBeast post," Fray-Witzer said. "That's absurd."

Donaldson has been chasing YouTube fame since he was a teen, and the colossus he's built is the result of the tight creative control he exerts. He's known to obsess over his videos and his image and to kill projects he doesn't believe meet his standards.

Russell Berger of Offit Kurman said the language might be understandable in the context of a social media star's company, but thought the letter was unusually formal, long, and cold in tone.

"This is more of a putting-you-on-notice way of doing it," he said. "Mostly when people leave a job, they don't get a reminder of what they can and can't do."

Legal bark or bite?

Fray-Witzer said the company's motivation is understandable: It likely doesn't want former employees undermining its brand or profiting from MrBeast's content.

The 28-year-old creator, who has over 523 million YouTube subscribers, has been rapidly scaling up his company, which was valued at around $5 billion last year. The operation has grown to nearly 800 employees as it has expanded into areas like candy and financial services.

"Where it becomes more questionable and heavy-handed is the extent that it is being used simply to silence former employees from saying anything about MrBeast or the company," Fray-Witzer said of the letter.

The lawyers who spoke with Business Insider said the letter isn't a contract and is likely not enforceable.

DeSimone said, however, that if the employee previously signed an agreement saying they wouldn't comment about Beast Industries on social media, and then did so, the company could potentially have a basis for legal action.

It might be hard to get a judge to enforce the provision, however, and MrBeast would likely "have to prove some sort of damages," Fray-Witzer said.

Even if the language isn't enforceable, it could still have a chilling effect.

"The question for the employee is always, what's worth the juice here?" DeSimone said.

• Influencer marketers from Disney, the NFL, and more shared novel ways they're using platforms today.
• They're embracing Substack for cultural cachet, Threads to experiment, and YouTube for entertainment.
• Brands are also bringing creators in earlier, treating them more like creative partners.

Creators are jumping among an ever-wider mix of platforms and formats — and brands are scrambling to follow them.

We asked the most innovative marketers working with influencers which platforms and tactics have their attention right now — and why.

Marketers from Disney, e.l.f. Beauty, and others told us they're using platforms like TikTok to own the red carpet, Substack to align with tastemakers, and Threads to experiment.

"YouTube is a home for creators. TikTok is a great way to get discovery," said Ian Trombetta, the National Football League's senior vice president of global social, creator, and content marketing. "And then Instagram is another big one for us as it relates to discovery. Even platforms like X and Reddit have a really important role to play."

Beyond platforms, brands like Keurig Dr Pepper are also exploring ways to work directly with creators, involving them earlier in the campaign process.

"A major shift has been pivoting away from rented reach to true collaboration," said Samim Sadrzadeh, Disney's director of creator content and partnerships. "For a long time, the industry treated creators as ad placements. We think that significantly undersells the value they actually bring."

Substack, Threads, and more

YouTube and creators are taking over the living room, and marketers like e.l.f. Beauty and St. Jude's fundraising organization ALSAC are leaning in, not wanting to be left behind.

"We have a lot of plans around long-form content, and that's a great place to show up," said Patrick O'Keefe, e.l.f. Beauty's chief integrated marketing officer. "We've been on YouTube for years. We're now looking at it from the lens of entertainment."

Others, like Poppi and Rothy's, are embracing the newsletter platform Substack to partner with creators. For some creators, Substack has become a way for them to get more personal with their biggest fans. That helps Poppi plan collaborations, said Sophia Sesto, Poppi's vice president of culture.

Yahoo has found value in Meta's Threads as a way to try out ideas in a lower-key environment before putting them out on bigger platforms, especially if it's jumping on a cultural moment and isn't sure how the effort will go over. When Taylor Swift released "Patient Zero," Yahoo riffed on it with a Thread that tied the "Os" in its name to the song.

"I think it's a little less precious over there, and it feels like a fun place to kind of gut check certain things, see how they'll perform," said Kemma Kefalas, Yahoo's senior director and head of Creative Lab. "It's just been a nice kind of litmus test for us."

Disney has especially found success with TikTok's Live feature, finding it a customizable way to build excitement for premieres. For "Zootopia 2," it had the viral squirrel character Nibs interview cast on the red carpet, while internet personality Carter Kench played host for the "Hannah Montana 20th Anniversary Special."

"Those moments work because we treated the platform as a canvas for a new kind of storytelling that connects directly to audiences in real time," Sadrzadeh said.

Brands are going direct

Platforms may always be a necessary part of doing business with creators. But going direct has become a bigger buzzword as many brands seek to bypass platforms entirely.

Keurig Dr Pepper, for one, wouldn't typically hire a creator through a platform's marketplace, said Lindsay Burstein, senior director of integrated social and communications, using TikTok as an example.

"We would hire the creator, have them post on TikTok. Then we have the ability to use that content and distribute it across multiple channels, but slice it up in different ways that make sense for that channel."

Influencers spent a long time trying to convince marketers to take them seriously. This year, marketers are expected to spend $44 billion with creators, more than tripling in five years, per the Interactive Advertising Bureau.

As brands increasingly treat creators as long-term partners, they're engaging with them earlier in the marketing process.

Yahoo's approach is to find creators who are entertaining and figure out how to insert itself into their work, rather than vice versa, as it did with TV persona Kyle Cooke to promote its new Yahoo Weather app.

"We're working with them for the entertainment that they bring to people, and we'll Yahooify it," Kefalas said. "Our briefs are often loose in those regards. We're not doing a lot of 'talk to camera, promote products' kind of thing. We've gotten a lot of positive feedback from creators that they've loved that opportunity to just do what they do best."

• The Tiger Sisters shared advice on when to keep friendships and when to walk away.
• Cherie and Jean Luo are applying their signature analytical approach to emotional topics.
• They laid out four factors to consider in evaluating friendships.

The Tiger Sisters became top business podcasters by sharing their educational and career experience at Stanford, Goldman Sachs, and more. Now, the self-described "Silicon Valley and Wall Street big sisters" are applying their mindset to friendships.

"I think everyone privately has gone through a friendship breakup at some point in their life, whether it's passive or active," Cherie Luo said in an interview. "And it's something that doesn't get enough attention because when we think relationships, we mostly think the romantic breakup is the most traumatic."

In a three-part series on the subject this month, the hosts broke down how they audit relationships with pals and when they know it's time to break up with a friend.

The sisters, who just joined the Vox Media Podcast Network, started out in 2024 by sharing lessons from their school and work experiences and have since introduced more emotional content. It's a bet that their formula can extend to a broad array of topics and give them more staying power as they aim to grow into a larger media company.

"We did start Tiger Sisters with a very, very business-oriented approach," Jean Luo said. "It was more so our audience that kept asking us like, 'Well, what about how does this apply to friendships? Who are you guys dating? What's going on in your relationships, in your dating lives?'"

In the friendship episodes, the sisters took a data-driven approach, drawing on academic research and layering in their own experiences rather than just venting about breakups.

"I think it's kind of in our DNA of, 'How do we make sense of something that could potentially be very messy and emotional and bring a framework to help guide us through it?'" Cherie Luo said.

When to end a friendship

The sisters say people should consider four things when evaluating a friendship: who you are, where you are in your life, who the friend is, and how they'll fit into your life going forward.

"By providing this framework, it helps the listener and the Tiger fan take a step back from what is inherently an extremely emotional topic," Jean Luo said. "You can then decide if you want to go through an active or a passive dissolution."

Researchers have found that most friendship endings happen passively when people grow apart, Cherie Luo said. This leaves open the possibility that the friendship could be rekindled, whereas abrupt endings tend to be more acrimonious and permanent.

"It is less disruptive to a broader friend group," Jean added. "Friendships don't exist in a vacuum."

In the podcast, they also discussed alternatives to ending a friendship: distancing yourself or changing the role the friend occupies in your life.

They gave the example of a friend who was tired of always being canceled on by a pal. Rather than break up with them, they addressed the problem by double-booking them.

If you decide a friendship's run its course, you don't have to take the leap and break up with them immediately, the sisters said. It's important to take the rest of your life into account.

"Let's say you just had a baby, and you are starting a new job, and you are helping your parents with their health," Jean Luo said. "If there's a lot of things going on, maybe you actually don't need to address that friendship breakup right now. Even if the right decision is to end a friendship, there are a million different ways in which you can approach it."

• Instagram is offering some creators six figures to help make it a long-form video hub.
• The Meta platform is reviving its IGTV ambitions, allowing horizontal videos of up to 90 minutes.
• Creators are required to cross-post their long-form YouTube content to Instagram as part of nonexclusive deals.

Instagram wants what YouTube has — and it's willing to pay up to get it.

In an effort to persuade content creators to post long-form video on Instagram, the company is paying a select number of creators hefty sums, according to people familiar with the deals.

Not every deal is equal. The Meta-owned platform has offered select creators $50,000 to post long-form video to its new "Features" product, while others have been offered six-figure deals, some of which have reached $500,000, Business Insider exclusively learned.

"We've been public about the fact that we are funding Features content directly with some creators right now to support them," a Meta spokesperson told Business Insider. "The details of those deals are confidential, but we're excited to see the content going live."

On Monday, Instagram unveiled an overhaul of its video formats. Most importantly, it's resurrecting IGTV — a long-form video product Instagram launched in 2018 and sunset in 2022 — in the form of Features. The horizontal, wide-screen videos will exist within the Instagram app, and can be as long as a feature film: 90 minutes.

Long-form video isn't exactly what people are used to watching on Instagram. Reels, the platform's answer to TikTok's meteoric rise, has redefined the Instagram experience and is driving time-spent and revenue across Meta's apps.

YouTube, however, reigns king as the internet's destination for sit-down, longer-form videos.

Instagram knows this. The deals do not require exclusivity to Instagram, multiple people familiar with the agreements said; one person familiar with the offers said it's asking creators to post to Instagram any of the long-form content they publish to YouTube that same day.

Reza Izad, partner at Underscore Talent, which reps clients like "Subway Takes'" Kareem Rahma and Noah Beck, called the deals an "exciting opportunity" for creators.

"Every time there's a new feature in these apps that the company's promoting, people will have more opportunity to be seen because there's going to be algorithmic preference to this kind of content," he said. "And unlike short-form, there's not a lot of abundance."

Money, money, money

This isn't the first time Instagram has inked paid deals with creators to lure them to post more on Meta's apps.

Last year, Meta was paying creators thousands of dollars to post short-form videos to Instagram and Facebook in the midst of TikTok's potential ban. The company has tested several bonus programs paying creators for the performance of their Reels on Instagram, though those programs have dwindled.

Back in 2021, when IGTV was still part of Instagram's big video bet, it inked deals with creators, funding long-form episodic shows from creators like TikTok's "Sway Boys" and "Dance Moms" alum Nia Sioux. Briefly, IGTV had its own monetization program, too, which let some creators earn a cut from ad revenue on the format.

While Instagram is paying some creators directly, a big question looms over the creator economy: What about the rest of them?

A major draw of YouTube is its long-standing Partner Program, which pays eligible creators a share of the ad revenue generated by their videos. Even though YouTube has increased its eligibility requirements, the potential to turn a hobby or passion project into a cash-earning career has kept YouTube on top as the go-to video platform for creators.

It's no surprise, then, that when Instagram announced its video overhaul, creators immediately had questions about monetization.

"We understand the economics matter a ton, and are exploring multiple options to help long-form creators get paid," Instagram's top executive, Adam Mosseri, wrote in an X post on Wednesday.

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• Talon Krebs earns six figures as a TikTok Shop affiliate, posting up to 30 videos a day.
• He says anyone can get started with just a couple hundred bucks.
• Effective TikTok videos need a strong hook to give people a reason to stop scrolling.

Talon Krebs works full time as a TikTok Shop affiliate, promoting products on the app and earning a commission when shoppers buy through his links.

The gig earned the 23-year-old six figures last year, according to a 1099 form reviewed by Business Insider.

"As far as startup cost, TikTok Shop has to be one of the most profitable business models I've ever seen," he told BI.

Krebs said beginners can get started with a phone, a few products, and an understanding of what makes people stop scrolling. He shares three steps to turn TikTok videos into a source of income.

1. Build an account and meet TikTok Shop's eligibility requirements

Anyone can open a TikTok account, but affiliates need an established following to join TikTok Shop.

TikTok offers multiple routes into its affiliate program, Krebs explained. Its pilot program requires 1,000 followers but limits participants to a handful of posts a week, while the main program, which gives affiliates more flexibility, requires at least 5,000 followers.

Krebs already had about 24,000 followers on a personal account when he got started. He said he built the audience by posting about sports, current events, and other subjects he liked: "I was just posting stuff I was interested in."

2. Start with products you already own or would buy anyway

Krebs said he spent $100 to $200 on a handful of products when he first started. He chose items he needed anyway, like hoodies.

Affiliates can search TikTok's product marketplace for brands and products to promote. Krebs said they don't need a direct relationship with a brand to start making videos, though successful affiliates may eventually negotiate higher commissions or paid content deals.

For someone trying to keep costs close to zero, Krebs recommends looking around the house first. If an item you already own is listed on TikTok Shop, you can create a video about it rather than buying something new specifically to promote.

He also joined Media Labs, a community for affiliates that offered video feedback and weekly calls. He paid the $1,500 fee in six $250 monthly installments, putting his initial outlay — including products and his first community payment — at about $450.

Skip the community, use products you already own, and film with a phone and free editing tools, and Krebs said you could get started for essentially nothing.

3. Make videos that give people a reason to stop scrolling

A TikTok Shop video still has to work as a TikTok video. Krebs said the opening seconds matter most: The hook should get a viewer's attention, identify a pain point, or create enough curiosity to keep them watching.

In one of his most successful videos about a digital business card, he opens with: "Paper business cards are officially a thing of the past." The statement created some controversy, he said, but it got viewers' attention before he explained the product and how he used it as an entrepreneur.

Krebs tries to keep most videos between 30 and 50 seconds, though he said the right length depends on the product. Some products need more explanation, while others can be shown in a 10-second video.

He thinks of each video as a loop: The hook opens it, the middle explains or demonstrates the product, and the call to action closes it. Affiliates can tag a product directly in the video, allowing viewers to tap the orange shopping-cart icon, view the listing, and ultimately make a purchase.

• Instagram is opening its arms to long-form video again.
• Adam Mosseri, Instagram's top exec, said longer videos will help the app stay "relevant."
• Instagram is testing tools for creators making episodic content. But will it pay for them?

Instagram's top executive, Adam Mosseri, has a plan to keep the platform "culturally relevant" — by making it more like YouTube.

Meta-owned Instagram unveiled an overhaul of long-form video features on Monday, including a test of horizontal videos called "Features." Taken together, the changes make the app feel a lot more like YouTube.

"We want to be the most culturally relevant platform," Mosseri said in an interview with content creators and founders of Press Publish, Colin Rosenblum and Samir Chaudry. "To do that, we just need to show up where people are."

The context: YouTube has become a major hit on TV screens, and there's a growing appetite for Instagram-native shows with recurring episodes.

"Subway Takes," hosted by Kareem Rahma, is a prime example of Instagram's strengths and limits. The show started in 2023 as a short-form interview series and, as it grew, expanded with longer-form cuts on YouTube and the streaming platform Tubi. Instagram, however, is where Rahma's show still has its largest audience of 2.4 million followers.

Instagram doesn't want people to go to YouTube or Tubi to see longer versions of shows like "Subway Takes." That's leaving ad revenue and user engagement on the table. Its new tools are designed to entice creators and viewers to stay on its platform.

Here are Instagram's latest video tools and how creators can use them:

• "Features" keep viewers within the Instagram ecosystem. Instead of leaving Instagram to watch the extended version of an interview or episode, it'll be relatively seamless to stay on Instagram and watch that longer-form content. Instagram's "Features" can be as long as 90 minutes, although the new format is, for now, only available to a limited number of creators in the US and Brazil.
• Instagram is feeding more content to its TV apps. Instagram is also pushing its "Instagram for TV" app further. The app will feature various video content on TV services like Samsung, Amazon Fire TV, Google TV, and now Apple TV. People can now watch a feed of content their friends are also liking or resharing on TV.
• Instagram-native shows can label their episodes more clearly with "Series." Within the main Instagram feed, Instagram is testing a way for shows on the app to seamlessly connect episodic content. Eligible creators can add videos to a Series, and a label appears over the content indicating that there are additional episodes. People can then watch those episodes in order from the start. This test is expanding to more countries through the end of the year.
• Clips can directly drive engagement back to the original video. Instead of clipping content and praying that the audience will go the extra mile of clicking on an account and finding the original, longer-form video, Instagram is letting creators link up to 8 clips to one long video.

This isn't Instagram's first time dabbling in long-form content.

In 2018, it launched IGTV, a long-form video format and stand-alone app. In 2020, Instagram rolled out a program that let creators earn money from those videos on IGTV. Four years after launching, the company sunset the IGTV app and shifted its video efforts to Reels.

There are a few key elements missing from Instagram's big leap (back) into long-form video.

You can't watch the video while continuing to scroll through Instagram, or multitask by opening other apps while keeping the Instagram content in a picture-in-picture pop-up. There also aren't automated transcripts and subtitles yet. A spokesperson for Meta told Business Insider that there are plans for these features.

Will creators get a slice of the ad revenue pie?

For creators, one key question and pain point looms: Will Meta share the honeypot?

Mosseri told Rosenblum and Chaudry that Instagram is thinking about ways to test pre-roll and mid-roll ads that could lead to a revenue split. However, he said previous attempts by Instagram to build a creator monetization system comparable to YouTube's Partner Program didn't prove beneficial for the platform.

"We spend more money than we make back by a long shot," Mosseri said of Instagram's previous efforts at broad revenue-sharing programs.

Mosseri said that in its previous iterations of content monetization, creators typically didn't produce more content than they already did for free, and the content they did create tended to be lower quality.

Still, Instagram will need to "figure it out" as it tries to crack longer-form content, Mosseri said.

"I don't think of platform payments or performance-based incentives or bonuses as a revenue driver," Mosseri added. "I'd be psyched to scale them up for any of these formats — as long as we're breaking even."

• George Brett Olson is one of a set of comedians who've called out AI accounts for ripping off their work.
• Olson said he was upset with Meta for allowing the situation to persist on its platforms.
• Instagram's top exec said the platform is invested in promoting original content and would look into the issue.

This as-told-to essay is based on an interview with George Brett Olson, one of several comedians who have lately called out AI accounts for ripping off their jokes. It's been edited for length and clarity. Instagram head Adam Mosseri said he would look into what could be done about the issue and that the platform was invested in driving traffic to original content.

I started doing stand-up in 2021 after getting burned out from being a winemaker. I'd been doing live shows, and this joke I made about, ironically, AI stealing jobs went viral. The whole joke was about AI stealing jobs and people still blaming immigrants, which is very silly when the most powerful people were saying, "We're literally coming to take all your jobs."

Then a friend sent me the video of this lady doing the joke. He's like, "AI is for real, for real, stealing your jokes." It was basically me, in my clothes, but it's a 42-inch butt. It's just the pornification of women online. It was very strange.

I'd been doing that joke for a year. I thought of it after working out with my buddy, and we were talking, walking. It takes a lot of work to get a joke stage-ready. It's a lot of repetition, tweaking, driving from place to place to perform. Comedy's not easy. So it's pretty sad to see it happen, especially when the AI comedians who are stealing jokes have more followers than the people they're stealing from.

I asked the account behind the joke if she was real. She said yes. Then I asked, "Did someone help you do this?" And she just left me on read. She also left a comment saying, "Sorry, won't happen again," and removed a bunch of videos.

I've had a bunch of followers try to report it. Adam Mosseri, the head of Instagram, replied and basically said, "Not all AI's bad. We don't know how we're going to stop it, but people shouldn't be able to steal. Seems like we should do something about that."

[This was Mosseri's exact comment: "I don't think it's practical for us to try and ban AI content from the platform. It's gonna be harder and harder to identify, and it's not all bad content (though yes, there is plenty of slop). But we are very invested in trying to drive more traffic to original content creators, and if an AI creator is ripping off content wholesale, it would be good for us to work out what we can do about that. I'm not sure what it would be, but I'll make sure to talk to the team and look into it."]

I blame Meta, not the AI

I don't blame someone for stealing. That's just someone trying to make a buck with the tools they have available. We want to hold people responsible that do not have the mechanisms of power because we can't hold an institution accountable.

I feel demoralized more by Meta's response. The language that's coming from all of them is that we're powerless, and this is inevitable, and there's nothing we can do. 
And it's just not true. And you just have to sit, be powerless, which is demoralizing.

As a comedian, you just want to sell tickets to your shows, engage with live people. That's why most of us post on social media — so people see that you're funny so they come to your live shows. I do live shows every week.

If we flood the internet with agents, and we don't know the difference anymore between what's real and what's not, this could be the death of the internet. Hopefully more people come to live shows. Because the one thing about AI comedians is: You can't see them live.

• James Dumoulin has turned street interviews with moguls into a business on track for $37 million in revenue this year.
• School of Hard Knocks uses staged drama to hook viewers and sells consulting services and memberships.
• Dumoulin and his partners aim to expand and become the "Barstool Sports of business content."

As James Dumoulin approaches a private equity investor in Lagos, Nigeria, there's an ominous moment when a bodyguard holding a rifle puts his hand up and demands the content creator stop.

"I have a channel with 24 million followers," the School of Hard Knocks cofounder responds, and then asks if he can interview the investor, Adesuwa Rhodes, for one minute about how she got rich.

Rhodes steps forward, dressed in a vibrantly patterned suit, and begins answering Dumoulin's questions, explaining how she broke into the business, the importance of persistence, and her faith in God.

The video's formula — mixing a high-drama street interview with advice from the wealthy and successful — has been distilled down to a science by 24-year-old Dumoulin, and helped him create a company that's on track to do $37 million in revenue this year, profitably, according to copies of financial documents he provided to Business Insider. The initial set-up is also, as Dumoulin readily explains, partly scripted.

"They're screaming at me, and it looks like a war is about to break out, and then I get her to calm them down," he said of how he blocked out the Rhodes scene. "And she gave some incredible sound bites and advice."

Street interviews, which have their predecessors on radio and TV, have been reborn as one of social media's hottest formats. Standout stars of the genre include Kareem Rahma of "Subway Takes," who gets opinions on hot topics from strangers, and TikToker Caleb Simpson, who asks people what they pay in rent and tours their apartments. As the format has grown increasingly lucrative, it's also become more orchestrated. Rahma and Simpson have both leaned into celebrity appearances, for example.

In Dumoulin's case, the upfront drama of the street encounter is contrived, a way to draw the viewer in and hook them so they'll listen to the interview, which is where he says the valuable information actually resides. He asks his subjects how they made their money, what their leadership principles are, and for advice for future entrepreneurs. The conceit is that they're lessons not taught in school.

"People love tension," Dumoulin said. "They want to see that conflict, they want to see what's going to happen, and then the payoff is a great interview on the back half. That's why I think our videos do really, really well."

Dumoulin's success in the creator economy — where the term "authenticity" is employed like a sacred totem — raises a host of questions about what it means to be "real," and how much it truly matters if you're entertaining and informing your audience. Any questions of authenticity haven't seemed to hamper the growth of School of Hard Knocks, though, which has nearly 11 million Instagram followers and over 7 million on TikTok, plus several million more on YouTube and other platforms.

Dumoulin said he'd consider a video a failure if it got under a million views.

The 'Barstool Sports of business content'

The videos serve as the center of an operation — run by Dumoulin, his brother Jack, 26, and their childhood friend Josh Smith, 28 — that contains a slew of businesses. The partners say they expect their media revenue to double over the next six months.

"One of the long-term visions of the School of Hard Knocks is to create the Barstool Sports of business content," James Dumoulin said.

The brand has done long-term sponsorships with companies including Shopify, ZipRecruiter, and Alibaba, but advertising isn't the most lucrative part of the business. The core moneymaker is School of Content, which provides social media consulting to small businesses.

The other two contributors are Hard Knocks Agency, a short-form video production and social media management agency for business owners, and School of Mentors, a membership community for aspiring entrepreneurs. Members pay $19 or $49 a month for live calls, workshops, and training with founders and operators.

Jack Dumoulin said the subscribers to its Mentors community are people who want to connect with successful entrepreneurs and learn from them, while the agency's clients are established businesspeople who want to build their personal or company brands.

"Founder-led brands are becoming a really, really big thing, where we're seeing more and more founders become the face of brands, their product, their service, or their company," Jack Dumoulin said.

Monica Khan, CEO of Creator Revolution, which helps creators build businesses and advises companies on influencer strategy, said she sees strong demand from execs and founders for help building personal brands, and business-to-business (B2B) creators are stepping up.

School of Hard Knocks took a smart approach by building a media brand first by interviewing entrepreneurs, then turning that credibility into a service, Khan said.

"We're going to see a lot more of that," she added.

The School of Hard Knocks cofounders have also invested in real estate, including a portion of an apartment complex in San Antonio and commercial properties.

The founders went through several pivots

The Dumoulin brothers grew up in a military family in Northern Virginia and became friends with Smith while serving in the same Boy Scouts troop. All went on to become Eagle Scouts.

James Dumoulin attributes some of their success to the mentoring they got from the military dads who ran the troop. He recalled the especially long conferences they'd have with scout leaders evaluating them for advancement to the next rank, and the scoutmaster who used to say, "There's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it again."

"That resonated with us," he said.

The three reconnected in Austin in 2020. Josh Smith had gotten into digital marketing, and Jack Dumoulin, who had won a trophy in a worldwide Microsoft Excel competition, had become a junior analyst at Buc-ee's. James Dumoulin was in college, making TikTok videos. They combined their skills to make online content.

School of Hard Knocks was by no means an overnight success. They experimented with several approaches, including giving their own business advice. People didn't care about a 20-year-old kid's perspective on business, James Dumoulin said.

"Ultimately, we were like, 'What if we tried doing interviews?'" he said. "'What if we were the ones that were able to go seek advice from the most successful people?'"

They started approaching people cold on the street, asking them for interviews, and more often than not, getting blown off.

"It was just constant rejection after rejection," James Dumoulin said. "You'd probably have to go to 100 people before you get anybody to even look at you in the eye."

Their big break came in 2022 when they intercepted Mark Cuban outside the South by Southwest festival and asked for an interview. The gregarious entrepreneur obliged.

"That one interview was so powerful for us, because I leveraged it in so many other interviews," James Dumoulin said.

Eventually, PR agents were calling them to have their clients be featured on the channel.

The videos are carefully planned

School of Hard Knocks videos have a spontaneous feel that belies the meticulous planning behind them.

They start with a cold open, often creating tension by involving a security guard or other bystanders. For an interview with Ring founder Jamie Siminoff, James Dumoulin roped in a few employees from a store on Rodeo Drive where he met Siminoff and asked them to stand in a group, chatting. Dumoulin asked the group who the richest of them was. As briefed, they pointed to Siminoff, who said he was an inventor who made "something on your front door."

James Dumoulin reshoots the opening several times until he's satisfied with the result. The rest of the interview is shot in one take. He approaches his subjects with hearty enthusiasm and said he does minimal research on them, to preserve a certain amount of natural surprise in his reactions. All told, he takes five to seven hours to edit videos that are between a minute and a half and two minutes long.

"He's got unbelievable guests," said Josh Suggs, founder of StreetTalk, an ad agency built around impromptu street interviews. "He has real A-list celebrities. So I think people naturally want to hear what an A-list celebrity is going to say. At the same time, he asks a question people want to hear: How much money do you make? It's very scroll-stopping questions."

Some subjects — like Shaq and Tom Cruise — are household names. Most are not. James Dumoulin said the best-performing videos are unknown moguls because they create a curiosity gap.

He doesn't press his guests on controversial topics. Convicted felon "Wolf of Wall Street" Jordan Belfort and streamer Adin Ross, who has hosted far-right creator Nick Fuentes and self-described misogynist influencer Andrew Tate on his stream, get the same treatment as everyone else.

A platform reality check

The cofounders said that when their content started to take off, around 2022, they got a reality check about dependence on platforms.

They said their content was making about $30,000 a month, mostly from Facebook, when they were unexpectedly demonetized by the platform for what James Dumoulin said was an "unoriginal content violation." (They've since been reinstated.) Their monthly revenue dropped to $5,000. They said it was a wake-up call that they had to find other, more predictable sources of income. They started their first offshoot, the Hard Knocks Agency, in 2023.

"Sometimes you're not in control, because you don't own the platform," James Dumoulin said. "It made us realize, 'We've got to create a media company.'"

The School of Hard Knocks founders are also aware of the risk they run of being dependent on a single person. That's why they're adding new brands like Hard Knocks Business and Hard Knocks Women, with Hard Knocks Sports to come. The goal is to get to eight channels by the end of the year.

"If it is all really relying on one person, if something happens to that person, the whole company's kind of screwed," James Dumoulin said. "And so I think that's why it is very, very important to have that distribution beyond just one channel."

• Fox-owned Red Seat Ventures is going after Substack's turf with a new newsletter option.
• CEO Chris Balfe said the company has had an early success with Tony Hinchcliffe's paid offering.
• The home of Tucker Carlson and Nancy Grace is also on the hunt for more big creators.

Fox's Red Seat Ventures is coming for Substack.

Led by Chris Balfe, Red Seat made its name running sales and production services for podcasters including Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, and Nancy Grace.

Now, as the lines between creators, podcasters, and writers continue to blur, it's adding newsletter functionality to its stack. The newsletter feature will live under Supercast, a company Red Seat bought this year that offers a menu of subscription options like livestreaming for creators. They can now build free and paid newsletters and track their performance on a dashboard. The newsletter feature is included in Supercast's base pricing of $0.59 per subscriber per month, with custom pricing available for big networks and media companies.

"We want to be a one-stop shop for creators," Balfe told Business Insider. "Whereas Substack has done a really good job going after written-first creators, and then adding podcasting capability on top of that, we're going at it from the other direction and saying, for most of the creators that we work with, their audio and video is their main business. So, let's add other features like email and livestreaming."

Balfe pointed to comedian Tony Hinchcliffe of "Kill Tony" as an early example of Red Seat's success in using a multifaceted approach. Since launching a subscription, Kill Tony+, Hinchcliffe has signed up thousands of people who get his uncensored, ad-free show and bonus content.

Hinchcliffe plans to create another, super-expensive tier where people would pay to get roasted by him, Balfe said.

"It would be like $10,000 or something like that to roast you," Balfe said. "We will sell out of these so bad."

He also pointed to an early pilot of Supercast's livestreaming with "This American Life," which drew more than 1,700 paying audience members.

Red Seat is aiming for 10 big deals

Balfe wants to make Red Seat a creator-economy juggernaut, with some 200 shows. The company has around 30 shows now and is looking to do a lot more deals quickly, especially in sports, lifestyle, entertainment, and tech. Red Seat's top creator deals generally pay a minimum guarantee against projected sales.

"We really want to accelerate our rate of dealmaking," Balfe said. "I think if we did 10 big deals in the next 12 months, that would be big."

Balfe disagrees with industry insiders like iHeartMedia CEO Bob Pittman, who say podcast distribution deals are getting too expensive. He said there was strong advertiser demand and that hosts have the ability to branch out into other areas. Balfe said he's doing deals where the show itself accounts for as little as 60% of the revenue, with the rest coming from other projects.

Balfe also sees the potential for creators to make longer deals. YouTubers are often used to getting short-term ad deals, while Red Seat is pushing for 12-month partnerships for its clients, he said.

"We're trying to do annual deals," he said. "YouTubers are attracted to that sort of consistency that the podcast business model has allowed."

Podcasts are TV now

Podcasting has become more of a video-first medium as it has evolved from its audio roots.

Forty-four percent of US podcast consumers watched a video podcast in the past week, up from 40% in 2025, according to a report from trade group Sounds Profitable released this month. YouTube is the top podcast platform, used by 63% in the past 12 months, ahead of Spotify (33%), Netflix (21%), and Apple Podcasts (15%).

Balfe thinks video will continue to grow its share of the pie. People are watching more podcasts on YouTube, especially on TV screens. Spotify is making the case that video consumption outperforms audio on its platform.

Major streamers are also hungry for podcasts, and linear TV players like Versant's MS NOW are looking for lower-cost programming to fill their schedules. Red Seat's shows aren't running on Fox's linear networks today, but Balfe said it's only a matter of time before that happens.

"I look at the next phase of video opportunities, and we have every streamer that wants our content now: Hulu, Peacock, and Amazon Prime, and Paramount Plus," Balfe said. "We also have the linear guys that are starting to come to us and say, 'Actually, what you're producing looks kind of like a talk show. Maybe we should just put it in late night or daytime.'"